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WebCeleb Thinks Fans Should be Paid to Listen to Music They Like

by Reinhardt Schuhmann on June 7, 2010 · 29 comments

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WebCeleb is a social music marketplace with a great business model for music fans.

If you’re a musician…not so much.

For every song purchased on WebCeleb, 50% of the money goes to the artist, 10% to the company, and 40% is split equally among the fans that bought that song.

According to WebCeleb’s promotional video, musicians should be super excited because “For the first time (they) can give back to (their) fans thanking them for their support.”

Wow! Finally!  As a musician it’s been so frustrating to suffer through all these years of giving nothing back to fans.  Nothing, except of course MUSIC THAT THEY ENJOY LISTENING TO!

Is this what we’ve come to?  Music has been de-valued to the point where musicians should engage in profit sharing with their fans?  Really!?  The WebCeleb business model actually suggests that music is worth less than nothing to the consumer.  You need to PAY PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO IT?!

Personally, I’d rather give songs away for free, or even have people download them illegally than pay fans to check out my music.

As if this wasn’t reason enough for musicians to be pissed off, WebCeleb is also hosting a Best of Local Music Showcase, in which fans purchase tickets for the showcase on the site, and the artists that sell the most tickets will get to perform.  Folks who bought tickets for artists who don’t make the cut get reimbursed, and of course the fans get 40% of the ticket sales.

Playing for an audience that was essentially paid to be there sounds pretty weird and awful, unless you’re the type of artist who likes to berate fans.  If that’s the case, now you can finally yell, “Shut the hell up and listen! We paid you good money to be here!”

I’m not delusional.  I didn’t become a musician to rake in the cash.  Even if I’m not making a dime, I’m still gonna make music.  It’s something that I love to do.  That doesn’t mean I want to give people who dig my music a cut of whatever money it brings me.  That’s just stupid.

Do authors give part of their publishing royalties to people who read their books?  Do artists dole out cash so someone will hang their work on the wall?  Would an architect cut a check to see his building get made?  No, no and no. Why on earth should a musician split the money they get selling their music with their fans?

If we have reached a point where this is something fans, start-up companies, and (God help us) MUSICIANS, think is okay, it’s time to seriously re-evaluate what music means to our society.

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  • http://twitter.com/wammusic/status/15648276122 We All Make Music

    Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/connorosborne/status/15658914536 Connor Osborne

    Words can't describe… This is so ridiculous I think I may have been trolled http://bit.ly/dA2gp6

  • http://twitter.com/elementsofjazz/status/15664054368 Donna M

    RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/fureousangel/status/15664115071 fureousangel

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/atmostrio/status/15664314890 Rob Michael

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/ru_pattison/status/15664538760 Ru Pattison
  • http://twitter.com/victorprovost/status/15665009551 Victor Provost

    RT @ElementsOfJazz RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy
    WTF?!

  • http://twitter.com/vppanman/status/15665155308 Victor Provost

    RT @VictorProvost: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy WTF?!

  • http://twitter.com/keithbgafn/status/15666686637 keith bernard

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/pitchconsulting/status/15667105661 Pitch Consulting

    http://bit.ly/dA2gp6 = hopefully the scene isn't this desperate.

  • http://twitter.com/bjjansen/status/15667106498 B.J. Jansen

    http://bit.ly/dA2gp6 = hopefully the scene isn't this desperate.

  • http://twitter.com/pitchconsulting/status/15667172686 Pitch Consulting

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/bjjansen/status/15667173377 B.J. Jansen

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/cybeardjm/status/15668329050 Didier J. MARY

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/chodgesmusic/status/15674165889 Chris Hodges

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy WTH?!

  • http://twitter.com/jonautry/status/15678115482 Jon Autry

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/rhysbass/status/15688845290 Rhys Anslow

    RT @ElementsOfJazz: RT~ Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • http://twitter.com/katiecamosy/status/15714453666 Katie Camosy

    RT @WAMMusic: Apparently now musicians are supposed to pay their fans to listen to their music. #FML http://twurl.nl/p88qhy

  • Phillaf

    Sounds more like the best concept ever. Who can make 50% the price of their sales? Who can get better publicity for the other 50% of their sales? This gives a huge publicity potential to newcomers.

  • MaxWillens

    That's an interesting take, Phil, but this system doesn't guarantee publicity for anything but WebCeleb. It might be incentive for a handful of people, but the people who are really going to act as proselytizers for a band are going to do it for free, not for the vague promise of a few bucks.

  • http://twitter.com/Webceleb Webceleb.com

    Reinhardt-

    I appreciate you taking the time to voice your opinion, now let me clarify a few things for your readers.

    * We strongly believe all music should be free to listen to and enjoy. We want artists everywhere to be able to communicate their message to the masses. However, when people decide they want to download music and add it to their mobile lifestyle, we believe there should still be a cost. And it's those people Webceleb rewards. The only people who make money are the artists, and the people who actually purchase music.
    * Webceleb reward fans for purchasing music. We strongly believe that musicians can build vested marketing teams comprised of new and existing fans. Every fan to purchase something receives “Slices.” They are rewarded for legally downloading music and supporting their favorite independent artists.
    * Additionally, we're noticing that fans are then spending their earnings within the Webceleb ecosystem. We're literally trying to build an economy centered around music, marketing, and discovery. So far, it's working and people are continuing to spend their earnings, which actually helps artists sell more music.
    * Phillaf is 100% correct. That's exactly why we designed our system. We believe fans are a musicians hard earned lifeline and this reward is simply another way to thank them for helping spread the word.
    * For our Events feature, rather than paying people to attend, fans receive cash back when they buy tickets to see their favorite artists perform on stage.
    * Here's why we developed Events. We want to remove the booking hassle that musicians experience. Venues everywhere want to support local music. They simply don't know how. They're finding it increasingly difficult to promote local artists. That's where Webceleb steps in. We believe every artist with a fan base deserves the right to take the stage. And if that's the case, why not let their fans decide? Musicians get booked through fan support. No more having to pitch the venue, await a phone call, and constantly send follow up emails with EPKs, etc. We will be in Austin, LA, Vegas, OK City, San Diego, (and 15 other cities that I don't want to give away just yet in the next couple months).

    -Scott
    http://www.webceleb.com

  • http://twitter.com/Webceleb Webceleb.com

    Phillaf- you're indeed correct. I posted a comment to this blog (apologies for the length) to expound upon our system.

    Cheers,
    -Scott

  • Phillaf

    I know that real fans will spread the word by themselves. And as they say, real artists don't make music for the money. But the reality is quite different, and I think that a band could actually get a few serious promoters out of it.

    Of course we have no way of knowing how this system will perform. And I assume that the benefits will probably fade as a band gets popular. But as your “agent” would do, the users that are there for the money will make sure that your music is heard in niches. Only THEN: you will end up with real fans.

    I must agree that we have no way to know if this system will indeed work, and end up in publicity. With so many emergant bands, a fraction of them could get a good kickstart. Only time will tell. But one thing is for sure: artists can only benefit from additional business models. It is erroneous to say that you “pay for listeners”.

  • Rschuhmann

    Your concept of “rewarding fans for purchasing music” is precisely what I take issue with. Why should someone be rewarded for purchasing music they are interested in? This is an important question to raise for any artist trying to share their music and make a living at the same time.

  • http://twitter.com/Webceleb Webceleb.com

    I understand your concern, however, we've developed this system to encourage new fans to buy and share music which we think is paramount in today's industry. We're incredibly aware of the way music is being devalued online. Webceleb rewards fans who purchase music in hopes they will do two things. One, publicize the artists they discover, and two buy more music using their earnings from previous purchases; thus helping artists earn a living. I do want to clarify that fans don't make anything unless they purchase music, and their earnings don't increase unless an artist begins to experience success selling more songs on Webceleb.

    There's a great article that came out yesterday on the Huffington Post called “Why You Should Pay For Music.” http://huff.to/bISLrP that is completely in line with our philosophy.

    It's becoming evident online that streaming services devalue music and free ad-supported models do not benefit the artist. If the landscape doesn't evolve, I fear that “music is [definitely going to be] worth less than nothing to the consumer.”

  • http://www.webceleb.com/petehopkins PeteHopkins

    If I may… Yes…the fact that something like webceleb.com needs to exist is wrong…
    however it is not wrong that webceleb exists and I believe it is brilliant and will be successful.

    Reinhart.. I agree with much of what you said but i get the sense from your views that you are not fully living this life…

    I am living it. 7 days a week, 24 hours a day.

    This is the hard truth about music as an industry today… Due to technological breakthroughs/breakdowns it has been devalued man!!!
    Ridiculously so…
    The proof is in the decline of music worth listening to at any price… forget about the record sales.. that's just a symptom.

    Let me expound further…
    I believe you really do get what you pay for in any situation…
    free equals= this means nothing to me and you mean nothing to me and i realize i mean nothing to you,
    so here is something for free… feel FREE to forget it ten seconds after i give it to you because it's really nothing.
    Ever go on craigslist and see what people will give away for free??? nuff said…

    Here is how I see this…
    We determine our own worth and people will most often only give what we ask for right from the start.
    This cycle of declining musical quality and greatness and consequently revenue/cashflow is only going to get worse unless ALL people really get behind the idea of paying for music again. Every single time I see someone give their music away for free, I wanna throw up.

    Now webceleb… why is webceleb great and a positive step towards a better tomorrow??
    Check it…
    Money, based on our own design, as a society, is about living..
    Money is about gratitiude and respect.
    When people buy my music, I respect them for respecting me and I am grateful for this exchange.
    I do not respect site hits, compliments, smiley faces or any other fleeting act of head patting for my efforts.

    Respect/Gratitude a two way street..
    Will I give some of my money, some of my respect, my gratitude to my fans who bought my music.. who prolong my longevity, promote my brand and sell my work?? You bet I will!!
    Every day of the week and twice on sundays.. and why shouldn't I??
    I make the music, but that does not sell the music… to think otherwise is to be naive.

    A manager takes 15% an agent takes 15% an attorney takes 10-20%
    publicists wanna get paid, promoters wanna get paid…
    I could go on and on..

    If the fans of music only realized that they now have the power to take away all that middleman bs
    and make it about what it truly is… the music creator and the music appreciator..
    we could all be winning man. -not to mention they can make money in the process…???

    Oh how I long for people to all do the right thing which is the first time they hear my work and enjoy it to say “hey that was a great track.. here's a dollar. I respect the ridiculous amount of money and effort that you put into this song…so here is a dollar”

    Omg do you know how much money I would have if this occurred regularly???
    I'd already be a millionaire… I kid you not… and this is the way it should go. Then again.. would I pay a dollar each time I heard something i thought was great… maybe.. maybe not….

    Would I pay a dollar to own the song if in addition I knew that I would also be invested in the future sales and success of that artist that I believed in? Yup. It's a tangible win/win… I am supporting music I love, thus enabling the creator to make more and perhaps even better music, plus I make some money myself everytime I turn someone else on to the music that I love.
    EXACTLY WHERE IS THIS A BAD IDEA?????

    Webceleb represents everything I wish to see in the relationships of life, co-existence, community and music. I see it as a truly revolutionary and mindblowing innovation.

    People actually not being selfish, being supportive, being competitive, being innovative, being aware that there is a fundamental problem with the system and taking the steps to enact a change for the better.

    I am a visionary and I see with my eyes wide open. This is the future and webceleb could save music.

    Pete Hopkins
    singer/songwriter/producer/entrepreneur
    http://www.webceleb.com/petehopkins
    twitter.com/petehopkins

  • http://weallmakemusic.com/dont-pay-for-fans-on-social-media-platforms/ Problems of Buying Social Media Fans — We All Make Music

    [...] already gotten pretty salty with WebCeleb in a previous posting, but it turns out there are things out there that make them look like a musician’s best [...]

  • http://www.trippywicked.com Chris West

    Interesting stuff. I'll probably try Webceleb out for my band just for the hell of it but I think a lot of these discussions are avoiding a few home truths.

    Musicians are not entitled to make money from their music just cos they're musicians. You gotta be good enought and by good enough I mean have good music and have the business sense (which the old labels used to take care of) to learn how to make money from your music.

    If being a musician is your job e.g. bass player in a cruise ship then you'll get paid cos there will be a contract in place etc. But… If you're the a 'wanna be the next best punk rock band' then you gotta earn the right to earn money by learning the business. Being an awesome band is a given if this is you're aim.

    The internet hasn't de-valued music it's just that the industry has changed.

    Until very recently (early 20th C onwards) musicians could not earn money from selling recorded music. They've only been able to because of the logistics of distriibuting physical media to the people who want it. It really is as simple as that. Those few that were able to make money in this context were the lucky few.

    The nature of the internet and digital information (music) facilitates free availability and free distribution. Nothing has been de valued but a lot more musicians have been empowered because of this. We just need to learn the business again if we want to earn money from our music.

  • http://www.rapmonster.com rap songs

    hell yeah fans should get paid to listen to most of the nonsense being put out

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